Kenneth Copeland Takes on Congress

Kenneth Copeland has defiantly stood against the investigation of Senator Grassley. In fact, he has stringently claimed that the financial records of Copeland Ministries belongs to God and God alone. He is willing to go to prison, apparently, to keep the records from the hands of Senator Grassley. Grassley, a Republican from Iowa, has maintained a steady hand in the ordeal and will continue to appeal to the common sense of Copeland.

Read the current article here:
Defiant Texas televangelist further scrutinized amid GOP fundraising

Watch The Copeland/Huckabee Love Affair Video

Another article to read.

Kenneth Copeland’s choice quote:

“It’s not yours, it’s God’s, and you’re not going to get it, and that’s something I’ll go to prison over,” Copeland said during a Jan. 22 closed-circuit broadcast of a ministers conference in North Texas that was first reported by the Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call. “So, just get over it!”

Again, you have Copeland refusing to turn over his financial records because they belong to God.

Perhaps he should read Romans 13:1-7.

His actions and attitude are preposterous. He can rest assured that they will happily send him to prison to test just how true his statement is. His behavior says only that he has perpetrated numerous absurd financial abuses within the “context” of ministry. It makes him look all the more guilty. I guess he just doesn’t have enough faith to believe that God will get him out of this one.

What do you think?

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~ by bchatcher on February 3, 2008.

17 Responses to “Kenneth Copeland Takes on Congress”

  1. I think you are spinning. What he actually fully said was that the IRS has jurisdiction over churches and other non-profit organizations, not the Senate. That doesn’t sound anti-governmental, or anti Romans 13 to me.

    I’m glad he’s not caving in to them as every other American Christian should be as well, unless you believe that the Government of the United States should not follow the Constitution and tax laws?

    Perhaps, you should review the clips again in their entirety, instead of picking and choosing parts which allow you to stand on your anti-faith soapbox.

  2. I he has nothing to hide, then why is he hiding behind such things?

    Who operates the IRS? Is it a privately owned firm? Did the US Government sell it to Blackwater? maybe Haliburton?

    PS, I don’t call what Copeland does/espouses “faith”.

  3. He’s not hiding anything. He’s exercising his right as an American citizen, not to hand over records, unless the proper authorities ask for it. Let me clarify this for you, since you didn’t catch it the first time. The IRS (which is the agency which oversees 501 C 3 corps and also tax laws) did not ask for anything from him or his organization, the Senate Committee Chairman did.

    You are entitled to your opinion about Kenneth Copeland, but unless you have all the facts (which I highly doubt you do) if your publicly announced opinions sway people one way or another, unless you are 100% right (which you are not) you are just as bad as what you are claiming him to be.

  4. What do you call “faith”?

  5. Bruce is absolutely correct. If you are going to look at the Copeland Ministry why not look at it as a whole? Why not also look at some of the many humanitarian outreaches that they sponsor with millions of dollars? But if you did that you just may be forced to report something “posive” about their organization, which of course would not make for very good hate mail. In my opinion, this politician is grand standing. He knows that he has no legal jurisdiction to require that thier ministry submit their financial statements to any agency other than the IRS. Yet he also knows that if he does he will gain instant national recognition from the media, and national recognition as we all know, means “nothing” to most politicians (yea right).

  6. I would hide from anything that the Health and Wealth people teach. It is anti-Bible.

  7. Whether the Senate has a right to request such information is a valid question. But I think that there is always the question of motive. Yes, when dealing with folks who preach, motive is a prudent concern. The fact that I have the right to reject a questionably legal search of my property is one thing. But why would I reject that search? OK, let’s explore options.
    1) I think that the folks searching are going to frame me. If Copeland feels that this is so, then he should invite others to view the books as well.
    2) I resist on principle. If Copeland feels that he needs to resist this on the grounds that it will make future witch hunts easier, he should point that out. This would only be aided by offering up his books for public perusal, or at least to show something more than one lousy pie chart. In this case, full disclosure would be a magnanimous show of character. It wouldn’t be as necessary as the first case. But it should prompt him to open them up to a third party, like ECFA.
    3) I don’t want the hassle of dealing with the paperwork or with having my books out in the open. In this case, I would stall, but Copeland doesn’t seem to be a lazy type of guy to me. If he is really balking at the prospect of showing financial responsibility just because he’s got other, better things to do, then perhaps he should have a less visible ministry presence.
    3) I’ve got something to hide. In this case, he would probably hide behind some legal technicality and not talk about the books at all, but instead challenge the validity of the Senate to examine them.
    Again, the point is not “does he have the right,” but “if he does have the right, why is he claiming it?”
    Simply put, the claiming of rights is an American virtue, but not a Christian one. Jesus did not claim his rights before his accusers, even though they were false. Each one of His apostles, save John and Judas, were martyred. None of them claimed their rights against the injustices that they were victims of. Why is Kenneth Copeland making legal claims to protect his financial records?

  8. D’oh, I used the number 3 twice. Maybe I should take some college math or something…

  9. Okay, I have had a long busy couple days at the office and I need to catch up.

    Bruce,

    You argue that Copeland has the right to resist based on the wrong authority asking for the financial records. This is perhaps valid, but I think the current Mitchell investigation in MLB would show this is not true. Also, my argument is that he has a biblical responsibility to “submit to [our] governing authorities” because God has allowed it to be established. Biblically, I would argue that it is moot that it is a Senator asking for the records rather than the IRS. This is also ridiculous based on Copeland’s assertion that the records are “God’s” and not the Senator’s. If such is true than again, the biblical principle should be followed.

    I don’t find the message he promotes to be true to the Gospel of Christ as espoused in the Synoptics and the Gospel of John. In other words, I find his health and wealth mentality to be an affront to what Christ taught us in Scripture is the “good news” of His coming.

    Virginia,

    I concede that you make a good point in bringing up Copeland’s whole body of work. Surely, some good works have occurred through the Copeland Ministries. How much more good could have been accomplished by not maintaining an aircraft fleet valued in the ten figure range? In other words, how many third world African children who can’t go to school, have little to eat, and are orphaned due to the AIDS crisis could be helped through the sale of just one of his aircraft?

    As for the accusation of grandstanding by Charles Grassley, you may very well be correct. Although, the same argument can be used against Copeland for proclaiming that he would go to prison rather than turn over the records. And certainly (to use your sarcasm) a televangelist who is bilking millions from his parishioners for his personal gain would not go on national TV to bring more attention to himself.

    Kevin,

    Great to see you come by. Short, simple and sweet. I like it. The message often propagated by such “evangelists” doesn’t hold up to whole text of the Bible and requires a great deal of manipulation of the Scripture to justify.

    Bull,

    Excellent thoughts as well. We missed you Sunday. I would agree with the second point 3. Copeland’s actions are consistent with someone who has something to hide, not someone who is simply resting on principle. To claim separation of church and state here would be a major overstepping of the intention of it being in the Bill of Rights.

    Peace

  10. I think most of you who are defending Copeland are really missing a key point and simple question. The point is not the fact that Copeland said no, it is the manner and tone of Copeland’s response that is the problem. The question is why would he respond this way?
    Why would any sane public leader that has nothing to hide immediately take such a strong defensive stance and make such severe statements that the money is God’s not the governments and that he would rather go to prison than give it to them? My understanding is that they want to see the money trail and make sure Copeland’s ministry is following tax laws correctly. He is not being picked on here. There are five other major ministries besides Copeland being investigated. Is that assumption incorrect?
    In my opinion, to immediately jump to such one sided statements does not even make rational sense. It displays a complete lack of respect and honor to the government which God has allowed to have earthly authority over us. He knows he is a leader in the Christian community and his actions will always be analyzed. He could have easily responded by asking that the “correct branch” of government, mainly the IRS, request the information from his organization. Anything would have been better than claiming the money God’s and basically telling the government over my dead body. That type of a reaction simply does not make logical sense. You have to remember we are not talking about some rookie preacher here. This guy is a global leader; he has been in ministry for 41+ years. He should know better than to react emotionally like this, it just makes him look guilty of something. But hey, that is just me.
    Bruce: On a side note, what in the world did you mean by “anti-faith soapbox”? I did not get anything anti-faith out of the initial post, so I am curious what you mean by that statement.

  11. Concerning your “side note”…you don’t consider “I guess he just doesn’t have enough faith to believe that God will get him out of this one.” to be slightly sarcastic in tone towards the area of anti-faith? Are you sure you read the post?

  12. He didn’t say “the money is God’s”…he said his mailing list was God’s and he would never release that to the Government. It’s very difficult to even talk to some of you about this, since you know so little about it.

    I guess the thing that bothers me so greatly is that, it seems that most of you are calling yourselves Christians and you are posting articles to your blogs in which you have idea about the credibility of the facts or the reporters. And if you tell me that you think that CBS is a credible non-biased source of information, then I know you are decieved.

    What I want to know is:

    How many of Kenneth Copeland’s messages have you heard?
    What research have YOU specifically done? Not what you have heard or read from others, because this is not their blog, it’s yours.

    I asked what you call “faith”, and I never recieved an answer.

    Bull, in regards to your point #2, he did say that! He said that if he gives up the information they want, any church, christian organization or person can/will be next. Again, don’t you guys know exactly what he said?

    The Copeland detractors seems to be missing the point that the US Senate should not be able to just intrude upon a christian or non-profit organization. I promise you as Christians, we don’t want that precedent in this country.

    I don’t think you guys have a grasp on this at all. I don’t think you really know what Copeland preaches. I don’t think you really know what the Bible says about what he preaches. I don’t think you really understand the concept of faith (I asked and got no answer). But, all that aside, what really concerns me is that you are willing to post publically articles and stories about a minister of the Gospel without being hesitant at all, in that they might not be factural. I’m not even going to ask if you pray for him…I think I already know the answer.

    Professor, perhaps you should see if your actions agree with what Christ taught in the Synoptics and the Gospel of John?

    In other words, why don’t you manage your own Christian behavior and leave ministers alone?

  13. Bruce, I’m going strictly on what I can find on Kenneth Copeland at his website, kcm.org, as well as published reports about what Sen. Grassley is requesting. Per his website’s docs on his specific response to Sen. Grassley and what he terms “financial accountability,” Copeland has made no such statements or accusations about what Sen. Grassley may be digging for. Honestly, I don’t give a fart in the wind about whether Kenneth Copeland continues on or ends his ministry tomorrow. But I think he (as well as the other individuals Sen. Grassley has contacted) serve as a barometer for how ministries that are unabashed about how they compensate their top executives react to requests for financial transparency. Could you point me to a link of Copeland’s indication that he felt this effort of the Senator’s was in fact, a bad precedent or an effort to establish further investigational authority?

  14. Hey Bruce,

    Thanks for clarifying the anti-faith thing. Yes I did read the post and I definitely found it to be as you stated a sarcastic statement, not so sure I would go as far as to call it anti-faith. I think you are making assumptions based on what you think rather than what was said.

    In regards to your statements on Copeland himself, I can say I know who the man is and have heard his messages before. I even interviewed for a technology position at his ministry a few years ago and I know several people who work for him in his publishing and web development teams.

    Personally I would not call a big ministry like Copeland’s a personal matter. They are not prying into his personal records, they want to make sure he is following the 501 C3 non profit tax laws. Personally I do not think this is not about personal freedom or who will be next if Mr. Copeland complies. They are investing his organization like they would any corporation where there are suspected problems with how finances are being handled, specifically in the area of taxes.

    I was posting here to state my concern that such a well known leader in the Christian community would react so strongly in a public media like that. I am not saying that he is guilty of anything or that he has done anything illegal. All I am saying is that his reaction is strange at best.

  15. Bruce:

    Forgot to address your faith question from earlier. Faith as described in the bible is the hope for things unseen to quickly paraphrase.

    That topic in and of itself could be another thread all on its own. What was your point in asking that question? Are you trying to imply that every on this blog or any one that would criticize Mr. Copeland’s actions lacks faith?

    What would you call faith? Just curious.

  16. You all crack me up………..the whole notion of money, any kind of money belonging to God is hoot. If God was standing before Kenny Copeland and he said “here God this mailing list all yours and I was saving it for you from the government” what do you honestly think God would say? “Good Boy Kenny, I sure could use a few names right now so that I can collect more money. I could use a few million right now as we are kinda short in heaven” Ken Copeland is his own religion and hides behind God when the going gets rough. Hand over the mailing list Kenny Boy…if the God gave you the prosperity, aren’t you suppose to share it? I am not thinking that our good Lord Jesus left with world with a mailing list and alot of money. If I remember correctly he had more respect for those that didnt have anything and gave than he did for those that had everything and would not give it up.

  17. Kenny And Gloria Copeland are deceitful gold diggers who are after nothing more than feathering their own nests… time people got their heads out of the sand and opened their eyes to what is really going on…. Sen Grassley isnt the slightest bit interested in their so called theology hes merely upholding the laws governing non profit organizations and has every right to do so… so Bruce my man get the facts right… as for Copeland saying its not his its Gods… he was referring to all information that Grassley asked for… its plain and simple Copeland has LOTS to hide and he has been ducking under the radar with the IRS… but this time hes been caught out and has nowhere to hide…i hope he gets the full weight of the law thrown at him his wife and their children as they are all involved

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